Dear Kinja...

"505Turbeaux" (505turbeaux) 11/24/2014 at 10:37 • Filed to: None

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I think by rolling out the top stories change to Oppo last week, you have shot yourself in the foot. In this evaluation I will explain why:

I hope you are monitoring the click activity well, because I predict it dropping as a result. No longer can you look to the left to see not only what has been FP'ed, but also posts that are gaining traction with views and replies. As with anything, I don't see anyone going to the second or third pages to see what they have missed in the last few hours. Now all we have is stuff that is wildly good, as in the Blackbird article, but everyone has read it twice or more, and we have stuff that has been shared on the front page. This might push off anyone who is an author as well because you spend all the time writing, and you get very little traction. Daswauto, davesaddiction and myself are still curating !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , which I think is a bit of a stopgap, but not a final solution. We don't catch ALL the good and worthy posts you guys make, but we are trying.

I believe there can be some common ground. I like the rendering of the top stories how it has been rolled out, but with the amount of content that is being created, 3 is too little an number of top stories to have there. So maybe we can have the old style top stories on the left below the fold, and the top 3 have the visual appeal of the update? Or call me crazy, but we have enough talent on Oppo alone to rewrite the algorithm and display the feed and have it be a Kinja sandbox if you will. I am formally throwing my hat in the ring. I think you need some actionable click data to go on and for this reason you should let the changes settle a few weeks, but on the back end we should get a crew together to make some wonderful stuff happen from Oppo that can be used across all of Kinja for the betterment of the platform, and of course to inspire more people to author here and elsewhere and be confident they are getting the most of posting here rather than elsewhere. What do you think Oppo/Kinja tech? I am not knocking what you have done, but I think it could be a boon to traffic to try and appease all - the authors, the mods, the paid authorship, and all of Gawker.

Who is with me?

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > 505Turbeaux 11/24/2014 at 10:42

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I've never understood why Oppo can't be a forum like anything else on the web. What exactly is the issue with having more permanent comments over this ephemeral system we have in place.

It's damn difficult to find anything after the first few pages back.

William Byrd > 505Turbeaux 11/24/2014 at 10:42

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No doubt, I complained about this when the FP did it. I can't get on Oppo 24x7 so when I do, I like to see what's going on. I used to be able to see the most popular 10 stories or so, now it's 3. I know I've missed some cool stuff, and I will plan to click "more stories" as many times as its feasible, but I know I'll still miss some stuff. That means less clicks for Gawker.

CalzoneGolem > 505Turbeaux 11/24/2014 at 10:42

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Blah blah blah. This thing!

PRBot II > 505Turbeaux 11/24/2014 at 10:45

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I'm with you! I was thinking these same things, but I've been a little weary of making any criticisms — even if they are constructive.

So thank you, I'm glad to see this topic being discussed!

Klaus Schmoll > 505Turbeaux 11/24/2014 at 10:48

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Well, to be honest, I am one of the few people who browse back 3 or 4 pages to see what I have missed. That's why I dislike reposts so much.

505Turbeaux > PRBot II 11/24/2014 at 10:49

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no problem, I don't have any problem ruffling a few feathers if it is for the betterment of the platform we all love and use.

505Turbeaux > William Byrd 11/24/2014 at 10:50

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exactly, thanks for chiming in

Matt Hardigree > 505Turbeaux 11/24/2014 at 10:50

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We've definitely been monitoring click-through rates with these changes and, largely, they've gone up. I'll see for Oppo. I also think that, while Oppo works great now, we definitely do keep in mind your uses-cases in terms of designing what changes we'll be making for the future — i.e., there are some aspects of the commenting system that aren't ideal

Gamecat235 > 505Turbeaux 11/24/2014 at 10:51

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But... but... the blackbird story is FINALLY not there!

William Byrd > 505Turbeaux 11/24/2014 at 10:52

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Matt posted something about it when the FP changed, claiming people didn't use the top links feature. That would surprise me, I used it every day, several times a day.

505Turbeaux > Matt Hardigree 11/24/2014 at 10:53

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Glad to hear the clicks are up, I would love to see how they are doing here on oppo. I would also love to sort the data a few different ways as well to see user flow and post viability beyond [X] time, but I realize that would be tipping your hand. Thanks for chiming in Matt

505Turbeaux > Gamecat235 11/24/2014 at 10:53

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lol it was when I wrote it!

Alfalfa > Gamecat235 11/24/2014 at 10:54

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You know I noticed that earlier today, but after reading your post I scrolled to the bottom (where they go on mobile), and there it was.

505Turbeaux > William Byrd 11/24/2014 at 10:54

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maybe it is just Oppo that is a weird microcosm of kinja...

pauljones > 505Turbeaux 11/24/2014 at 10:58

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I like the attitude, and like you, I dislike the new layout; it makes the jobs of mods a little harder.

That being said, I'm not quite sure you grasp the full nature of what you're asking. Kinja is a big, big system; and that big, big system is meant to host all of the GM sites. They can't just pull out one separate little subblog out of all of GM and have it use a different system. That's just not the way it works. As for the talent necessary to actually handle complex re-coding of a system like Kinja... I think you're a little optimistic. But, let's say - for the sake of conversation - that you're right, and we do have that kind of talent on tap. Do you have any idea how much that sort of thing requires in terms of resources, both human and capital? It's a lot. If it were all just a matter of spending a few days tweaking a line of code here, or an algorithm there, Kinja would have been dirt cheap to implement and it would have been done in a week.

Suffice to say, it's been a little more than a week, and Kinja is still evolving rapidly as lessons learned are documented and applied.

Look, I'm not an engineer by any means, but I can tell you right now that to properly define, document, design, code, test, secure, and maintain a system like Kinja isn't exactly a goddamned walk in the park. There's a lot of work involved. Not for nothing are software developers, systems engineers, web developers, system administrators, etc. their own separate fields of expertise - and not for nothing does Gawker employee so many of them. Kinja is a professionally developed system that Nick Denton and GM payed a shit ton of money for, and it's got more quirks and creaks than we care to count. Start tossing random bits of improvised code work in there from amateurs who know nothing of the underlying system, and the system will only get worse.

They keep track of quirks of the system all the time, and they do listen to what is said. But they can only do so much so quickly - they have a lot more on their plate than just Oppositelock.

William Byrd > Gamecat235 11/24/2014 at 10:58

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haha, it'll be back!

Shady Balkan Subject, Drives an Alfa > Matt Hardigree 11/24/2014 at 11:04

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Oppo is definitely the stranges of all the blogs. My observations show that this is the blog that gets the most FP posts form the Gawkerverse, which means one of two things: much more of the content is just superb or just the staff is more happy to use the system as it was maybe intended when this version was rolled out. So maybe it worked better with the previous system. Also the amount of time the new post stay in the top is too much or at least the Blackbird one.

Funktheduck > 505Turbeaux 11/24/2014 at 11:04

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I do 99% of my reading/posting through my phone so I'm not really sure what the issue is. My issue is how jalopnik has become hit or miss a lot of days. They seem to "borrow" from oppo a little too much at times. It's great for the people that get recognized but I've seen quite a few posts by jalop staff that seem way too similar to an oppo post to be coincidence but then don't give credit to the original oppo post.

I spend almost all my gawker time on oppo or one of the sub-blogs because I don't get greyed out and ignored. There's also a lot more content generated.

505Turbeaux > pauljones 11/24/2014 at 11:07

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but it is a start. I do appreciate how much it would take to refine code/algo changes, push to GM tech to vet the code, and test. I do it quite often in my day job. It does seem daunting, but I am aware that success for kinja is clicks, directly and indirectly, and when I see something that might be frustrating to the author, or the end user, I quantify it by asking myself "does this make me want to post or browse more" or the ultimate "people are fickle, would this frustration make people less inclined to visit".

As always, I am looking out for what I perceive to be the best route taken with OPPO/Kinja, but it is only my opinion. The opinions stated above are open for debate, which you have done well.

Shady Balkan Subject, Drives an Alfa > Klaus Schmoll 11/24/2014 at 11:09

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Sometimes I even go 10+ pages to see if I had missed interesting stuff and then I see something I like, but it is too much pages from the current posts and most porbably just OP or the person I replied to will see it and don't want to comment anymore.

BKosher84 > 505Turbeaux 11/24/2014 at 12:04

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THIS GUY LIVES IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD!!!

Klaus Schmoll > Shady Balkan Subject, Drives an Alfa 11/24/2014 at 12:04

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I know that feel.

BKosher84 > CalzoneGolem 11/24/2014 at 12:05

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This guy lives in my neighborhood! He drives this thing around at least once a week during the summer!

CalzoneGolem > BKosher84 11/24/2014 at 12:06

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It is glorious beyond description!

505Turbeaux > BKosher84 11/24/2014 at 12:08

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what really? Have you seen him tooling around in that thing?

BKosher84 > 505Turbeaux 11/24/2014 at 12:14

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Yeah it's pretty sweet. Sometimes it's just him cruising around it in and sometimes he has passengers in the back. It's cool to see either way!

505Turbeaux > BKosher84 11/24/2014 at 12:21

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wow no doubt! Cool!

Gamecat235 > Shady Balkan Subject, Drives an Alfa 11/24/2014 at 12:59

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The top stories sidebar is 100% traffic metric driven. Which is why the Blackbird post stayed as long as it did (and why it periodically returns, this one was Facebook's fault, in the past we can blame Imgur, Reddit and the front page). Oppo also has the largest number of authors of any blog on Kinja (nearly 2700 authors) and is likely the fastest moving blog on Kinja because of it.

Statistically, we turn out more, but with more and from more.

Shady Balkan Subject, Drives an Alfa > Gamecat235 11/24/2014 at 14:57

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I understand that what is there it is traffic driven, but this doesn't mean it is a good way, most read does not equal the best.
What I meant about the FP posts, is that Jalopnik and io9 are the only sites that publish user content often, Kotaku has TAY, but they never post them directly, I can't speak really for the other sub-blogs, because I don't visit them often, but I haven't seen or remember to have seen user content on the FP.

Gamecat235 > Shady Balkan Subject, Drives an Alfa 11/24/2014 at 15:05

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Jalopnik, io9, Jezebel, and occasionally Lifehacker (enough to include here) all publish user generated content regularly.

And most read is the only quantitative measurement which makes sense. Recommendations or Facebook likes are arbitrary. I wouldn't want this to be a user defined qualitative scale, it would be ripe for abuse. It may not be perfect, but it works. If Oppo regularly turned out much better content, the Blackbird story would not have stuck around for more than three days.